Curse

Tijger · Oct 26, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

1: Run up to monster
2: Hit monster repeatedly
3: When monster moves, continue hitting it
4: Pick up loot
5: Rinse
6: Repeat
7: Wipe hands on pants

Yes indeed but that requires real effort and sometimes even thought, not just copying 55 monk builds and press the right buttons. Thats way too hard for some people.
I've always found farming the most tedious, boring waste of game time I ever experienced yet I managed to make well over 500K in this game, equip several characters with 15K armors and buy whatever I needed over time.

Quote:

It's still plenty easy to get gold and plenty easy to farm. It will, however, require a bit more thought. At any rate, slowing down the rate at which thousands of bot farmers inflate the economy with ebay gold can't eb THAT bad an idea, eh?

Everyone isn't SUPPOSED to be rich. Everyone can't have a superior vigor rune. There just aren't enough to go around. The high prices price poorer folks out of the market. Armor,on the other hand, has a fixed price, and a relatively low one at that. If you can't manage to pick up 7.5k by the time you need to buy max armor, well, I suggest you spend more time playing the game instead of getting run everywhere.

QFT and yet I'm willing to bet the whiners will just go on whining

Tortoise · Oct 26, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Seriously... Every time Anet changes some AI mechanic, nerfs a popular farming ground or build this entire forum gets filled with flames, whines and complaints. Are there still some people here that actually think an update like this will put an end to farming? The end of farming was forecalled when Flesh Gollems first got nerfed, it was said to have happened when the first invinci-monk got nerfed, same again when they changed AoE or the torch trick... But what do you know... It's still here and it's still big as ever.

Farming has been around forever and will stay around forever. How can you possibly complain when within the day you're getting access to a 300 new skills that make new farmbuilds possible and an entire new continent filled with new goodies and farmgrounds?

This update changes some farmgrounds and some farmbuilds, it doesn't kill farming at all... Now can we move on and please notice how awesome this update is?

bsumlin · Oct 26, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Everyone isn't SUPPOSED to be rich. Everyone can't have a superior vigor rune. There just aren't enough to go around. The high prices price poorer folks out of the market.

Besides, superior vigor runes are just like 15k armors: they're for prestiege. Honestly, how many of you can justify 30k for 9hp? Soak that up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Armor,on the other hand, has a fixed price, and a relatively low one at that. If you can't manage to pick up 7.5k by the time you need to buy max armor, well, I suggest you spend more time playing the game instead of getting run everywhere.

...I have been waiting months for someone to say that. The Droknar run is one thing, for people who've been through the storyline once or twice already and just want to get some max armor to make their third, fourth or twentieth tour a bit easier. But it's turned into a run EVERYWHERE. I'm sick of seeing lvl 6's being run through ascension. I'm tired of level 10's in Naphui wondering why they can't get a group. Well said!

Ninna · Oct 26, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsumlin

I expect material prices to increase a fair amount, and if you've noticed, blue and red dyes are already SOLD OUT.

when NF launches tonite,
you can do "To Dye For" quest over and over and over again with different new chars --- takes less than 15min (including gettin past the 1st mission)

HzzB · Oct 26, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Heh-heh-heh, I LOVE THIS PATCH !!!

I have "one of each" character, overnight have tested my multiple farming builds and did not find much troubles. A few builds are dead, so what? Look at your skills and be a little bit creative. Yeah, runs now a bit longer...

Only dumb farmers without any sign of brain were affected. Now monsters are "smarter" and have higher IQ then some farmers, LOL.

Good luck whining.

kolakoski · Oct 26, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

To Arenanet, this new patch was supposed to make things more challenging. One of Arenanet's main points was that they wanted to discourage farming and encourage team play: they wanted everyone involved in Guild Wars, hence its name. However, there were several major flaws found.

1. (Most) people don't spend their lives on Guild Wars
According to this new patch, it's expected that people, instead of doing a couple of runs, spend 1 hour doing 1 run to possibly get a chance of getting some gold. Arenanet probably felt that they were gearing towards the people that spent so much time on Guild Wars. Unfortunately, it's necessary to realize that a huge chunk of their userbase comes from people who have lives.

2. Money is, and always will be, an issue
With Arenanet's new patch, a utopian ideology can be derived from their perspective: they wanted a game without much importance to money, or gear. This can obviously be seen by the level capped at 20, and unique items easy to find. Unfortunately, with this new patch, they entirely contradicted their policy, and made things therefore infinitely more difficult. The best part about Guild Wars, however, and how it attracted people was its facility in gameplay. You could, potentially, create your own build, go out, and farm to get those items you needed. Now that it's near-impossible to go farming without taking 6-7 hours, perhaps they should rethink their ideology.

3. Contemplate the consequences
What did Arenanet expect the reaction was going to be from this patch? Did they expect a submissive public in response to this "upgrade"? What was their rationale in releasing such a possibly controversial patch the DAY before their new "expansion" came out? Arenanet obviously did not think this through clearly in realistic concerns, as if they did, it would have certianly dawned upon them that the Dervish uses AOE spells. Maybe they thought people wouldn't figure that out?

These are just some major flaws I saw in Arenanet's causation in releasing this new patch... perhaps some argument will invoke a repeal of the so-called "upgrade"?

Well met!

1. IMHO, if monsters act more intelligently, then the game is improved.
The game was challenging, now it is more so. This is good.
The focus of the game is even more on skill as opposed to the
accumulation of gold and fancy gear. This is good.
The quality of the experience is more important than the material gain.
People who have lives do not necessarily lack the patience to enjoy the
natural evolution of a player's and/or character's development.

2. See above. Also, it is my understanding that one of the major undrelying
concepts behind the creation of Guild Wars was eliminating the need for
"farming" and/or "grind" to develop viable characters. To now complain
because Guild Wars has done this is illogical.

3. See above. The consequences, again IMHO, will hopefully be that Guild
Wars will continue its encouragement of skill and creativity and resist
any "realistic concerns" to be more like some other game (WoW).
In my experience, joining a good PvE guild makes every aspect of the
game easier and more enjoyable, and renders the "need" for farming moot.

Melandru's blessings!

Phoebe · Oct 26, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsumlin

Besides, superior vigor runes are just like 15k armors: they're for prestiege.

+9 hp has nothing to do with prestige.
+9 hp is not visible to other characters.
+9 hp affects your performance in game.

Diablo™ · Oct 26, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

those digits do feel a tad big...

gr3g · Oct 26, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Funny how I seem to have lasted for 17 months without a single Sup Vigor rune.

+9 hp is 4 seconds of -1 degen. Parasitic Bond > Sup Vigor.

Marc0 · Oct 26, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

They look perfect on my monitor, but I have extremely high resonolution on my 21" widescreen monitor. Would be nice if you could adjust the 'font pitch' or size of the numbers. I actually like seeing what damage i'm doing, was harder for me to see before, now I can see when I need to swap axes if i'm not paying attention or get distracted based on knowing about what damage I 'should' be doing...I can now see when I haven't changed axe types for various mob/armor conditions.

saphir · Oct 26, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Following all the whining about the AI change to the enemy, skill changes and aoe stuff, I logged on last night to see it for myself.

After downloading all 4000+ files, I jumped into a UW 8 man pug as a monk to check it out myself. Typical unorganized pug - headed by a mesmer who had never been there, a no-stance heal sig+mending only 1st time warrior, a SS necro, 2 eles, a mending/heal party monk, another first time monk and my monk. The only thing unusual was there were 3 monks instead of 2. So I went in expecting the worst as the eles started burning and aggroing w/ flare, and the mending monk ran around aimlessly, the warrior starting to quake at the thought of lvl 29 mobs.

Surprisingly hardly anyone died, the bladed aatxes seem to run around maybe a tiny bit more than usual, but they always seemed to return to the warrior. He hardly died though as we had 3 monks on him and he was to naive to think he might die (2 of us were carrying prot spirit).

Anyway, it was almost too easy to make it to the chamber in which someone grabbed all 3 quests. Seemed like another typical pug run to me. Especially since I was expecting quite a aggro nightmare w/ the new update.

So Back in TOA, i hop on my SS necro and join a pug going to FOW. It was another typical pug, grab some guys and go - none of that skill chech crap =). We had 2 monks, a mes, 2 ele nukers w/ m shower, 2 warriors and my echo SS necro.

So the run seems to go pretty normally, I'm throwing SS on everything and getting used to these huge screen hogging yellow numbers pop up everywhere. Eles are nuking, mobs are dying, shards are dropping. Nothing new. By the time we finish the first quest our warrior has dropped and so has the other monk.

We decide to continue on our merry way, our monk is excellent and loves a good challenge, both eles have some heals, I brought BR and blood wells.

That's when we start noticing that the FOW mobs really, really love our warrior. I mean, they can't keep off of him. In fact versus the first group of icehands, hardly any maelstroms or lighting spikes hit us at all.

We weren't all that careful about aggro either. We always let our lone warrior go in first, but our aggro always overlapped as we would be about 1/2 aggro behind him. Before the update, the skeletal beserkers would chain aggro right to the monk or ele, but last night they woud just run straight for our warrior. I'd cast my SS, the nukes would start falling and the mobs would prety much suicide themselves to death. They might run away a few times, but not far, and would almost eagerly run right back into the meteor showers where the tank was.

This became really noticaeble when we hit the infernul worms area in FOW, we felt pretty invincible by then, just sending off our tank into packs of abyssmals, monks and warriors. Then nuking+SS would finish them off really, really quickly. By then aggro was pretty intense and w/ one monk our warrior died a few times. The funny part is, the aggro would break and they would come for us. But one of our eles would ressurect the warrior, and as soon as the warrior was back up, all the loose abyssmals and shadow warriors would immediately turn around and make a beeline right back towards the warrior. Of course we'd all run in and start nuking again. It was hilarious, if the warrior was up, that's all the mobs seem interested in attacking.

I had never had a simpler time clearing the infernul worm area, in a group of 6 w/ 1 monk no less.

And the sipder caves where usually you get interrupted half a dozen times by the spiders + poison on everyone. Well, once again I could be standing right in the middle as the spiders drop down and they would only be interseted in attacking the warrior. I didn't get interrupted once. In fact the casters were almost never a target, and we all know how loved by mobs mesmers usually are.

The entire run it was almost as if our warrior was carrying an invisible aggro book.

Anyway, we went on to clear out the burning forest and free the eternal hero w/ just a group of 5 after the mesmer had to leave. A 5 man pug doing what other top quality 2 monk pugs I've been in have never been able to do. Sure we all had degen on us, but the melee mobs tended to stay on our warrior, even when they ran away from aoe. That and we knew when we should run. Never had so much fun in fow before heh.

The only time we observed some really interesting aoe behavior, was on a group of icehands + berserkers (we had accidentally aggro'd a extra patrol), SS was taking them down, nukes were falling, and at about 50% health, the entire enemy mob just sort of exploded outward - the beserkers just spun around and charged us casters, immediately maelstrom, lighting and chaos storms dropped on us. We ran around a bit, and all the enemy seemed to return right back to the warrior.

In the end, we cleared the 2 hardest areas in fow, cleared the forgemaster, saved the wailing lord, escorted the griffons and bagged about 25 shards and dozens of golds. And never had an easier time of it.

I don't know.. is this due to the updates for where the enemy will keep attacking a player they think is going to die? Or their more persistent aggro that I keep hearing about (they just couldn't get enough of our warrior, or whoever obtained first aggro)? Or did the 2 trips I went on just bug out?

reetkever · Oct 26, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr3g

Funny how I seem to have lasted for 17 months without a single Sup Vigor rune.

+9 hp is 4 seconds of -1 degen. Parasitic Bond > Sup Vigor.

Well you could've also lasted 17 months without armor at all. Runes are things that improve your gameplay, they aren't just things to show off with.

Also, what's with all the 'start PLAYING the game' in this thread, you guys want to say that gathering gold to buy something in the game is NOT playing the game? 15K armor and perfect weapons aren;t in the game for nothing, how is it wrong to collect gold to buy them? Well it's okay when you say that you only play the game when doing missions or quests, but just do every friggin mission 12 times like I did, and you'll be bored with 'playing the game'.

Phaern Majes · Oct 26, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Heh my experience isn't quite like that, but I haven't done uw or fow yet. Instead in SF I have to chase the friggen priests clear across the rooms. They just take off running as soon as they know they've been targeted. Can be annoying when you target them, they take off, and look there go your henchies on after him. By the time I get the hench flag down for them to run back, they had already invited 4 more mobs to join the fray :S Ah well, other than a few bugs in it the henchies do seem smarter. Though I'd think they'd fix the monk rezzing by now. Seriously do both monks really need to rez the SAME guy? And do they have to do it while the rest of the party is being slaughtered?

jeoliver · Oct 26, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

I have noticed the Warrior centered aggro, however I haven't seen much of the scattering that people have been talking about. One problem I have faced is the monks no longer want to rez...I actually have to put a flag right on my corpse just to get rezzed now.

Solar_Takfar · Oct 26, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

For the average, casual player, this update will have little impact. Collectors exist for a reason. They give weapons just as good as the zomfgonegazillionplat ones. You don't need to farm to play the game successfully.

Exactly. I don't do farming myself; I've completed the game with 5 characters (3xproph and 2xfactions). Money is easy to come by, by simply doing quests and missions (do an experiment: just play thru the game normally with a character, you'll find yourself with about 30k when you're finished). I don't have thousands of ectos or millions of gold stored away, but guess what, I don't need them. Collectors, and the now easier-to-salvage mods can easily get a character up to snuff. Heck, I even have two full and one partial 15 armor sets; all you need to do is finish two campaigns with the same character and you'll surely have enough money and materials to equip that char with 15k armor.

Bottomline is: there's no reason to farm in this game (and no reason to buy ebay gold), other than getting the omfgwowbbqwtfuberleet weapon skins, or the obsidian armor (both of which are totally uneccessary, anyway), or perhaps some title or another. So, if you're in the niche that wants those (or worse yet, if you believe you NEED those), get ready to sweat a little more, and leave behind the solo/duo farming mentality. - Or maybe not, maybe all that's needed is some time for people to adapt and find other ways of exploiting the system...

Imaginos · Oct 26, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Don't really have a problem with the new numbers, though an option for the old style would be nice.

I'd like to be able to turn off the text too if I want.

Bugs:

Old dyes not stacking with new dyes.
Inventory items that have been dyed (like collector shields, chaos axes, etc) do not show the colored they were dyed on the inventory icon.
I can no longer make a pale lavender color due to no dye remover, which made things transparent a bit.

Requests

Add in a mappable keyboard shortcut for turning the mouseover info windows on and off.
Allow us to use command keys (shift, ctrl, alt) + another key for keymapping.

Does-it-Matter · Oct 26, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Ok, a couple things to touch on here.

To the comment of the effect on the economy.
Initially prices will go up, sure, its the reaction you would expect from a society in which the future promise of a good or service has suddenly become scarce. Given a little time, those who want to sell their goods/service will find less of an audiance capable of supporting their price. So now they have two choices, not sell or sell cheaper.

So either you're not having items change hands, or prices will come down to meet the now adjusted high-end player's ability to earn. Basic economics.

To those saying this encourages Ebay usage.
This is just an inherant part of human nature, not a direct effect due to a video game. People want what is considered desirable. There are currently two ways of gaining those desirable items. Earn them, Ebay them. Given that humans, in an unchecked environment, will opt towards the easiest method. That's human nature, not ANet's programmers intentions.

The problem is players are greedy, and impatient. You can see that in each and every post complaining about the AoE "nerf" or farming "nerfs." People who had become accustomed to an easier method of obtaining wealth or an easier method of engaging an enemy are finding their old methods not quite as effective.

The average player may WANT FoW Armor, Crystalline Swords and Superior Vigor Runes, but these items are NOT intended for them by the game programmers. Its a high end item, for the most dedicated of players. It should be a small percentage of players who have this. Its a status symbol, and nothing more.

You can *gasp* beat the game without farming. I know, I've done it twice before I ever figured out what farming was. And back then, I was definately not a "hard core" player, I barely knew what I was doing.

If you want a coveted item, you have to accept that you need to invest a LOT of time and effort into it. It's a very real-world concept, which is why I think some people are unable to grasp it yet. Guild Wars isn't a game of "Mommy buy me this! I want! I want!"

To the AoE changes directly
You mean my enemies now realise that when a continuous amount of damage comes from a certain source, they move away from it?

To think, it only took about a year and a half to get the neurons to signal from the hand, to the spinal column and back that the hot pan needs to be dropped...

To say that you would want your enemy to stay in place and recieve massive amounts of damage while you would (hopefully) move away from such a thing is hypocritical and elludes to the greed and desire to have things easy as I stated before.

So the enemy has a little better perception of self-presivation and isn't your personal suicidal group of targets? That's called an improvement.

To those saying the end of soloing/dualing.
Do me a favor. Look at your party-forming window and tell me how many slots are availible? Also, I do remember a little popup warning that would say "this mission is inteded for X amount of characters, are you sure you want to proceed?" I must say, I'm shocked that ANet is actually reinforcing this element of the game.... Shocked and knocked down.

If you first invented a particular solo or dual build, congradulations, it took a little work, I know. To those that might have also created similar builds seperately without any knowledge of the established builds, congradulations as well. But beyond that is where it ends. You found a narrow exploit (exploit not used in the 'bad' sense), but now the game has changed.

Those that actually create the builds, I'm sure they're a little miffed, but in the end, they can just make a new one. After all, they did it before. The reality I'm seeing is those who simply coppied another person's build now are left in the cold, and those are the most vocal of the group. You were using a borrowed idea, and now its changed, you really have no room to complain.

It isn't just a suggestion that there are certain party numbers for certain areas. Hell, you don't see a "Would you like to join a party of 8 or a party of 1-7?" For Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry.

---

The game is evolving, and in my opinion, its getting better.

Oct 26, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

big numbers are aweful.

i play at 1920x1200 to make things small. not even more big.

Lykan · Oct 26, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Have no farmers ever heard the word "Snare"?

So it takes a bit more skill now instead of standing in one spot and spamming skills. Use a bit more imagination and come up with some better builds.

jesh · Oct 26, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I bet it's cause he had mending. *adds it to skills*